SB-1419 & 1537 Go to House.

SB-1419 was significantly Amended by the Health and Welfare Committee in the House!
It was subsequently passed by both the House and Senate.
SB-1419 was signed by Governor Batt..

3/24/98 -- On Friday, March 20, the Idaho House of Representatives passed and the Senate killed a bill which would have kept the state from licensing pastoral counselors. Earlier in the week the House Health and Welfare Committee had spent several hours dealing with the issue of counselor licensing. That committee, taking seriously the constitutional problems with the practice of licensing religious titles and functions, had removed the term "pastoral" from the bill, leaving a provision which would have still allowed religious counselors to be licensed under the secular statute.

In an attempt to finish the legislative session, both the House and Senate were functioning under suspended rules, a regular practice which in some repects is clearly against constitutional mandate (The Idaho Constitution allows no exceptions to its requirement for any bill to be read aloud and in full on its scheduled Third Reading.) After its approval by the House, SB-1537 was killed when the Senate sent it back to the Committee where it originated.

Because the Senate has failed to deal with the acknowledged constitutional problems of pastoral counselor licensing, the issue remains unresolved. When considered in light of the opinions that were rendered from the Attorney General's Office, it seems clear that the Bureau of Occupational Licensing must put on hold the implementation of such licensing. The Attorney General will undoubtedly be asked to rule on the matter of whether any such licensing can avoid unconstitutional impositions in this religious realm, since there is no way to avoid its regulation through a secular board or bureau. If the Bureau of Occupational Licensing attempts to implement the unconstitutional law, a challenge will likely occur. A nationally known constitutional lawyer has indicated an interest in helping to prevent such licensing. At any rate, to fully resolve the issue (at least to remove the constitutional irregularities of the law) will require legislative action again next year.

Another counselor licensing bill, SB-1419, had also been given a cleanup job by the House, which clarified that all "faith-based" counseling would be exempted from the law which makes counselor licensing mandatory for all who are not specifically exempted. Though this law will admittedly not even prevent the practice of the one individual cited for having damaged so many lives and whose practice was touted as the reason for mandatory licensing, SB-1419 was still passed by both the House and the Senate. Some concerned citizens have asked Governor Phil Batt to veto the bill.

Because of disagreement over HB-610, a parental consent for abortion bill, the Legislature was unable to finish work on Friday and had to come back on Monday to finish up, passing a somewhat weakened bill.

3/17/98 -- On Monday, in a meeting that spanned several hours, the House Health and Welfare Committee made extensive amendments to two bills relating to counselors. Considered first was SB-1537, the Senate's unfinished attempt at solving the constitutional problems of Idaho Code 54-3405A, the Pastoral Counselor law which was passed last year. The House committee's solution to the problem was to strike the term "pastoral" from SB-1537's proposed requirements for section 54-3405A and move them to section 54-3405 as a distinct set of requirements that would stipulate the acceptance of "a graduate degree from an accredited university, college, or religious institution"; the offending section 54-3405A would then be stricken from the Code. In order to assure that implementation of the change would be accomplished without further constitutional or religious infringement, a "sunset clause" was added so that the additional provisions will die after two years, unless the legislature decides that they should be continued. The following statement of legislative intent was to be attached to the bill: "It is legislative intent that in implementing the provisions of this act the Idaho counselor licensing board recognize all graduate programs granting M.Div. and higher degrees which, irrespective of religious doctrine and belief, grant degrees based upon substantial academic qualifications." Afterwards, one senate sponsor of the bill, while making reference to the "sunset clause", was heard to say that the amended bill would not make it through the senate.

With regard to the supposed and intended protective aspects of the other bill, (SB-1419), two citizens testified of the heartache and disruption that had afflicted their families because of a licensed counselor who had used memory regression and other foolishness to conjure up false memories in family members. The heart-rending accounts demonstrated the fact of how modern psychological concepts and practices are found at odds with reality, wisdom, and biblical truth. The counselor lost his license but is currently practicing as an unlicensed counselor. The consensus was that the problem surely needs to be addressed, but there was no agreement that the licensing procedure can bring a resolution; such a counselor can still practice under one of the necessary exemptions. The Committee, instead of killing SB-1419, made numerous amendments that were intended to remove its constitutional problems, while leaving intact some mandatory licensing provisions. All references to the term "pastoral counselor" were removed and wording was added that would clearly exempt all "faith based counseling of any kind" from mandatory licensure. Other changes included a clarification that the law would apply only to "professional counseling for a fee", and the compulsion to divulge "required or requested" information was qualified to be "pursuant to an investigation commensed pursuant to this chapter." At least one proponent of the bill felt that it had been "gutted".

Throughout the proceeding, the House Health and Welfare Committee displayed a commendable attentiveness and will to bring genuine resolution to the problems addressed by these bills. While there was greater verbal participation on the part of some, no member of the Committee failed to participate constructively to the process. While the results do not entirely satisfy the concerns of this writer¹, and we have yet to see a final draft of either bill, the process on that day gave rise to a hope that, with committed citizen involvement, things don't have to be quite as discouraging as they sometimes seem.

3/13/98 -- Earlier, the Senate killed legislation (HB-470) that would have repealed Idaho’s unconstitutional Pastoral Counselor License law (54-3405A). Now, in a cosmetic attempt to make the intrusive law acceptable, that same legislative body has set aside legislative rules to rush through a bill (SB-1537) that will simply transfer the constitutional violations out of the statute and into the Bureau of Occupational Licensing. Without repealing the Pastoral Counselor License altogether, the problem of government intrusion into religion still remains. Two bad Senate bills, SB-1419 and SB1537, will be considered on Monday afternoon in the House of Representatives Health and Welfare Committee. Please contact the members of the committee and ask them to kill these Pastoral Counselor License bills, both of which will only aggravate the existing problem. Tell the House Health and Welfare Committee that you want the State out of Pastoral Counselor Licensing altogether. The members of the committee are:

Dorothy Reynolds, Chairman, Republican - Caldwell
Bill Sali, Vice Chairman, Republican - Meridian
Ron Black, Republican - Twin Falls
Thomas Loertscher, Republican - Iona
Max Black, Republican - Boise
Dianna Richman, Republican - Sugar City
Lawrence Denny, Republican - Council
Jim Jones, Republican - Mountain Home
Cameron Wheeler, Republican - Ririe
Wendy Jaquet, Democrat - Ketchum
J. Patrick Bieter, Democrat - Boise
Donna Boe, Democrat - Pocatello
Margaret Henbest, Democrat - Boise

The meeting is scheduled for 1:30PM or upon adjournment. Be sure to contact them before then. Proper protocol for E-mail and Fax communication requires that you include the name of the legislator as well as your own name, address and phone number.

Phone: (208)332-1000
Toll-free: 1(800)626-0471
Fax: (208)334-5397
E-mail: infocntr@lso.state.id.us

(March 10, 1998) -- On March 9, after having gone through a 14th Order amendment process, SB-1419 emerged with only minimal improvement to its original language. It must now be considered by the House Health & Welfare Committee. The bill still makes specific references to the title "Pastoral Counselor" and still retains broad licensing requirements beyond the specifically stated exceptions. It will magnify the State's intrusion into the realm of counseling in general and strengthen the assault on religion by requiring licensure for any religious counselor who has no specific denominational or sectarian affiliation. Anyone, religious or otherwise, who uses any terminology or engages in any practices that are broadly outlined in the bill would, if not specifically excepted, be required to have a license.

Some legislators have accused us of misleading the public and lying about the Pastoral Counselor issues; please study these pages and judge for yourself whether or not we have done so. Even with the amendments, all of the arguments are still valid. HB-470, having been held in committee, is now a dead issue until a constitutional challenge takes place,even though its arguments are directly relative to SB-1419. SB-1419 can still be defeated if the members of the House can be convinced.

It is important to contact the members of the House Health and Welfare Committee and the other Representatives and let them know of your concerns about this legislation which will sacrifice freedom on the alter of monetary gain and special interest control of counseling.

(February, 1998) - The bill is now in the Senate Health and Welfare Committee where Senator Grant Ipsen is Chairman. We have learned from Representative Robert Schaefer that Senator Ipsen has decided to kill HB-470 by simply holding it in Committee, while he pushes SB-1419, a bill that will make the Professional / Pastoral Counselor License mandatory. While he is to be commended for allowing ample time for participants on February 18, it is significant that Senator Ipsen interrupted important testimony to give a lengthy rebuttal that included an indication that he was awaiting an Attorney General's opinion before the Committee's forthcoming consideration of HB-470; this, in spite of the fact that the Attorney General's Office has already issued an unfavorable opinion of the current law. In light of his now apparent intention to arbitrarily smother HB-470, his earlier indication that the bill would indeed be considered seems to be nothing but a conveniently deceptive tactic that only magnifies this insult to the legislative process and to the people of Idaho who deserve to have a fair hearing on legislative issues. Please communicate with Senator Ipsen, your other Senators, your Representatives, and Governor Phil Batt and let them know of your desire to see HB-470 heard in the Senate in a fair and normal way.

(March 4, 1998) - After hearing testimony from both sides of the Pastoral Counselor Licensing issue, the Senate Health and Welfare Committee voted to kill HB-470, a bill which would have repealed the Pastoral Counselor License law passed last year. After all testimony was heard, Senator Denton Darrington, rather than discussing the merits of the bill, made disparaging comments about the coverage we have given in these web pages.

Without mentioning us by name, the senator claimed that we had unfairly and inaccurately reported on Committee Chairman Grant Ipsen's handling of HB-470. Darrington suggested that we had used the names of representatives Robert Schaefer and Ron Crane without their permission and that we had falsely reported that Ipsen had planned to kill the bill. Representative Schaefer, who was present in the room, rose to his feet to request that Ipsen have Darrington clarify what he was talking about. The representative was forced to wait until the obviously angered Senator had finished his attack and a vote had been taken. Schaefer was then allowed to give brief explanation about how he, as a sponsor of HB-470, had conveyed the reported information to us, since this writer is also a sponsor of the bill.

Senator Darrington said that, in claiming that SB-1419 would make the Professional/Pastoral Counselor license mandatory, we had "lied." The senator is surely astute enough to know that SB-1419, in spite of some significant exceptions, does indeed make the license mandatory for individuals who are not covered by the exceptions. Our SB-1419 page clarifies how that will be true even in spite of the proposed amendments.

Only the senators themselves know whether their unanimous negative vote was due, as it seemed, to sympathy for their offended chairman rather than to a careful consideration of the bill's merits; however, if such is the case, another disservice has been perpetuated upon the citizens of Idaho. The impression of this writer was that throughout the course of testimony and questioning, the cogent arguments of the bill's proponent's were given somewhat obligatory consideration, while simultaneously, there seemed to be some apparent fishing for excuses to ignore the current law's constitutional problems -- problems which were reiterated via testimony from Idaho's Constitution, from an Assistant Attorney General's opinion letter, and by a representative of the ACLU who argued that the existing secular license is adequate by itself and avoids the constitutional problems of the yet to be implemented Pastoral Counselor License law.

After adjournment, Senator Ipsen expressed to this writer how he had taken personal offense at our report. He denied that HB-470 had been heard as a result of any political bartering; however, this writer has every reason to trust the integrity of Representative Crane who, when he had expressed his willingness to provide some political assistance to HB-470, was taken at his word. That he effectively carried through is evidenced by the fact that, after talking with Chairman Ipsen, Crane asked us if we still wanted the hearing to be scheduled, since the senator was confident that he could muster the support to kill the bill in committee. Given the fact that so many people had sought for HB-470 to have a proper hearing, it seemed a simple matter of integrity for us to go ahead with the hearing, even though the bill would most likely die. With regard to our report of this political bartering, Senator Ipsen said, "We don't do that here!" and claimed that we had generated our report based on "hearsay" and "gossip".

As to our actions: after having waited for the better part of a month, when we were told that Senator Ipsen intended to smother HB-470, we saw the handwriting on the wall and felt that there was little to lose by ignoring possible repercussions and fully communicating the details of the issue to the public via radio and the Internet. With the exception of one article wherein we neglected to stipulate any exceptions as we noted the mandatory aspect of SB-1419, we have been meticulous to present the issues fairly and accurately, without hiding our obvious and appropriate bias toward religious freedom. This is more than what might be expected from typical present day media sources and it is something for which we do not apologize.

We would appreciate hearing from anyone who would be willing to critique our presentations on these pages; we're willing to learn and adjust wherever appropriate.

(March 2, 1998) - Representative Ron Crane, Chairman of the House State Affairs Committee, informed Senate H&W Chairman Grant Ipsen that if he expected his favored SJM-106 Constitutional Amendment bill to be considered in Crane's State Affairs Committee, Ipsen would need to give HB-470, the Pastoral Counselor License Repeal bill, a hearing in the Senate Health and Welfare Committee where Ipsen had intended to kill it by refusing to put it on the schedule. Under pressure from Crane, and believing that he has the support of the Committee to kill HB-470, Ipsen has scheduled the bill for 8:00 AM on Wednesday, March 4. They call this unfortunate, but sometimes necessary, legislative leveraging "log rolling."

The HB-470 Pastoral Counselor License Repeal Bill may have a chance if concerned citizens will act now and contact the members of the Senate Health and Welfare Committee and express their desire to have the State get out of this unconstitutional area of making determinations about the qualifications of these religious counselors. Call 1-800-626-0471, 332-1000, or E-mail (infocntr@lso.state.id.us) to contact these Senators on the H&W Committee:

Grant Ipsen, Chairman, - Republican, District 17, Boise
"Moon" Wheeler, Vice Chairman - Republican, District 35, American Falls
Denton Darrington, - Republican, District 25, Declo
Harold "Hal" Bunderson, - Republican, District 14, Meridian
Judi Danielson, - Republican, District 8, Council
Clyde Boatright, - Republican, District 2, Rathdrum
Gordon Crow, - Republican, District 3, Hayden
Robbi King, - Republican, District 20, Glenns Ferry
Lin Whitworth, - Democrat, District 33, Inkom

(February, 1998) -- Testimony was heard on SB-1419 in the Senate Health and Welfare Committee on Wednesday, February 18, 1998. There seemed to be a general consensus that the Bill needed to be amended to address some of the areas that would intrude into the area of religious practice: Section 3, (1) would probably be removed, and something would be done to ostensibly clarify Section 3, 54-3402, (4), Paragraph 6, dealing with clergy exceptions. No changes were expected to deal with the problems of the broad definitions of Section 2, 54-3401, (5). Some spokesmen, of course, disagreed with the bill's premise that licensing should be mandatory at all.

(February, 1998) -- Discussion of the bill was continued to Friday, February 20, 1998 when, after only very brief discussion at the end of the Committee Meeting, it was amended and sent to the Senate floor. Section 3, 54-3402 (1) was deleted and Section 2, 54-3401, (5) was amended to read: "Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to apply to the activities of any religious denomination or sect."

While this change brings a modicum of relief to some of our concerns, it does not eliminate the State's intrusion into religious aspects of counseling. 54-3402 (3) would require a license for anyone who used the term "Pastoral Counselor" or any other "title, words, or abbreviations" that might be confused with any "standard of...competence" designated "by this chapter" unless they fell under one of the specified exceptions listed in 54-3402 (4). For example, an unaffiliated lay person or religious counselor who used such terms would fall under the license requirement.

In spite of Committee Chairman Grant Ipsen's claim that a repeal of the current Pastoral Counselor License (via HB-470) would void the reference to "Pastoral Counselor", it is not entirely clear that such would be the case; and, in any case, a subsequent cleanup of the language would seem necessary. This, however, is unlikely to happen since Senator Ipsen has taken it upon himself to kill the HB-470 Pastoral Counselor License Repeal legislation by not letting it be heard in the Senate Health and Welfare Committee. [Editor's note added 3/10/98: Subsequent to the publishing of this article, HB-470 was begrudgingly heard and summarily killed by a committee that was admittedly disgruntled about the communications on these web pages. See reports on HB-470.]

Furthermore, while there is nothing in SB-1419 which would provide any sure or meaningful protection for the public who use counseling services, it would give the board very invasive powers to meddle into the affairs of just about anyone. 54-3402 (4) would make it "unlawful for any person to... materially refuse to furnish the board information or records required or requested pursuant to this chapter."

Freedom is much easier to lose than it is to restore!

Let your voice be heard!
Communicate with your legislators and ask your friends to do the same.

Current Issues	Pastoral Counselor License: the Basic Issue	Nels Wilson's Arguments on HB-470	Attorney General's Opinion	Dr. Bulkley's Letter	Letter to Counselor License Board	Gov. Batt's Letter
KBGN Home Page	Pastoral Counselor 1998 News Articles	Nels Wilson's Arguments on SB-1419	Dr. Compton's Arguments	Rep. Schaefer's Letter	Rep. Stone's Letter	How to contact legislators
	Pastoral Counselor 1999 Issues

Current Issues	Pastoral Counselor License: the Basic Issue	Nels Wilson's Arguments on HB-470	Attorney General's Opinion	Dr. Bulkley's Letter	Letter to Counselor License Board	Gov. Batt's Letter
KBGN Home Page	Pastoral Counselor 1998 News Articles	Nels Wilson's Arguments on SB-1419	Dr. Compton's Arguments	Rep. Schaefer's Letter	Rep. Stone's Letter	How to contact legislators
	Pastoral Counselor 1999 Issues